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The Slow, Quiet Death of Hong Kong

Écouter/Video/Vendover Productions/The Slow, Quiet Death of Hong Kong

The Slow, Quiet Death of Hong Kong

Vendover Productions
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0:00This is China, and this is China, yet the degree  of difference between the two sides of this line  
0:06far surpasses that of many, perhaps even most  international borders. Growing from a fishing  
0:12village into one of the world’s wealthiest  cities almost entirely within its 156 years  
0:17of British Colonial rule, the 27 years since  Hong Kong’s return to China have done little  
0:22to blunt the full totality of its anomalies from  the mainland, but Beijing’s now trying to change  
0:27that—and fast. This is proving challenging. Much of Hong Kong is quite literally as  
0:34different to the mainland as it can be. North  of the border, vehicles drive on the right;  
0:39in Hong Kong, they drive on the left. Hong  Kongers get their own passports—some of the  
0:43strongest in the world, in fact, with visa-free  access to 172 countries. Mainlanders, meanwhile,  
0:49only get relatively weak Chinese passports  granting the same rights to just 90 nations.  
0:55Hong Kong has unrestricted access to the entire  internet, China’s is some of the most restricted  
1:00and censored in the entire world. In fact, Hong  Kong is so isolated from the rest of China that  
1:05mainland residents are not even allowed to  visit the territory without applying for  
1:09and being granted a permit, whereas the  residents of the UK, US, and 168 other  
1:14countries can visit without any visa or permit—it  is quite literally easier for most foreigners to  
1:20visit the city than Chinese people.  But then there’s the less tangible  
1:24side—the general, international flair to  the city borne out of Britain. For example,  
1:30Hong Kong’s traditional tea is closer to  the British preparation since it relies  
1:34on milk—uncommon in traditional Chinese cuisine  due to the lactose intolerance experienced by 90%  
1:40of ethnic Chinese. There’s also the ever-present  egg tarts—a direct lineage of the British custard  
1:45tart, ubiquitous across the city's bakeries and  restaurants, and even now in Hong Kong-style dim  
1:50sum restaurants in the rest of the world. With  high levels of English proficiency, day-to-day  
1:54exposure to Westerners, access to international  media, and more, Hong Kong, while in a category  
2:00of one, is far more similar to places like  London or New York than any other Chinese city.  
2:05But Hong Kong’s distinction goes deeper than that.  Perhaps the greatest source of difference is in  
2:11the very core of its legal and political system.  China, after all, is a communist state—a political  
2:18structure just about as fundamentally different  as possible to those used in the west. Hong Kong,  
2:24meanwhile, is a free-market, capitalist economy  centered by a western, democratic system based  
2:29on English law. With the handover of Hong Kong  to China in 1997, this system was adapted and  
2:34enshrined into Hong Kong Basic Law—in broad  strokes, this guaranteed the maintenance of  
2:40the status quo of democracy, capitalism, and  the English legal system until at least 2047. 
2:46So in the era since the handover, you have a  strange, singular situation where a communist,  
2:51autocratic country oversees a capitalist,  democratic territory—a fundamental  
2:56incompatibility that the pair have increasingly  and painstakingly attempted to rectify, such as  
3:01in 2019 when the Hong Kong government proposed  an amendment to the territory’s Basic Law. 
3:08It was called the Fugitive Offenders and Mutual  Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters Legislation.  
3:13The law was born out of a murder, as a 19-year-old  Hong Konger killed his girlfriend in Taiwan,  
3:19admitted to doing as much, but then couldn’t  be extradited back to Taiwan because there was  
3:23no formal extradition agreement between Hong Kong  and Taiwan. To close what they called a loophole,  
3:29the pro-Beijing party, the Democratic Alliance  for the Betterment and Progress of Hong Kong,  
3:33presented some changes to the law: that special  surrender arrangements would be considered on a  
3:37case-by-case basis to any jurisdiction, regardless  of their prior extradition relationship with Hong  
3:43Kong. While this would only apply to 37 specific  schedule 1 offenses—which range from murder and  
3:48piracy to offenses involving the unlawful use  of computers—it was received by the Hong Kong  
3:53public as a serious concern. Now, it seemed,  any brush with the law could see Hong Kongers  
3:58whisked away from their western-style courts and  legal system and thrown into those of mainland  
4:04China’s. For people with such a cultural  distance from their next-door neighbor,  
4:08it seemed like another slide toward Chinese  rule—and they wouldn't stand for it.  
4:13The protest began in earnest here, well before it  became global news, with a student-led sit-in at  
4:18the Central Government Complex. Then, the movement  grew: 10,000 marched in protest two weeks later,  
4:25then, a month after that, a crowd that organizers  claimed to be around 130,000 marched in protest  
4:31against case-by-case extradition toward the  legislative council. Still, while the largest  
4:36protest in five years, the bill, and its most  prominent proponent in Chief Executive Carrie Lam,  
4:41maintained that the extradition rules were  to become law. But over the weeks and months  
4:46that followed, the protests continued to  snowball into the massive demonstrations  
4:50that reached global headlines and ranked as the  largest in the city’s history, and eventually  
4:55Carrie Lam gave in and withdrew the legislation.  So in the short-term, the protests won the battle,  
5:01effectively striking down Hong Kong legislation  that felt like it empowered the mainland. But it  
5:06also served as justification for another legal  maneuver that may have forever displaced the  
5:11balance between eastern and western influence in  the city. This was a new national security law,  
5:17and it was annexed, in its entirety—all  6 chapters and 66 articles—by a vote of  
5:23162 to zero. This criminalized acts that  could be considered subversion from China,  
5:29or efforts of secession from China, or terrorism  toward China. As Lam saw it, such an act had been  
5:35justified by the protests, but critically,  unlike the extradition legislation, this new  
5:40law didn’t have to clear Hong Kong legislation,  as it was introduced then passed by the National  
5:46People’s Congress, then signed by Xi Jinping—an  almost unheard of instance of Beijing imposing  
5:52laws on the supposedly autonomous Hong Kong.  This was a massive break from the norm. While  
5:59similar security legislation had been presented  in 2003, it was brought to the fore by Hong Kong  
6:04officials, and it was subsequently dismantled  by protestors. But now, in the grips of a global  
6:09pandemic that had Hong Kongers assembling in  no larger than groups of eight, and in the  
6:13wake of what China viewed as a secessionist  and terrorism upswell in the year prior,  
6:17the nation took legal reform into its own hands.  The legal case to do so was dubious. The Hong Kong  
6:25bar association protested, the western world  strongly denounced the move. But strangely,  
6:31the streets were quiet. Unlike during  previous perceived oversteps by China,  
6:35Hong Kongers didn’t take to the streets, they  didn’t organize in the thousands around the  
6:40universities. Rather, when reporters asked about  the new laws, they stayed suspiciously mum. And,  
6:47one by one, organizers and activists focused their  energy not on saving Hong Kong’s special status,  
6:52but getting themselves and their families out of  Hong Kong as quick as possible. As the UK opened  
6:58up a path to citizenship for Hong Kongers  who lived in the city during British rule,  
7:01well over a hundred thousand opted to move  to the former colonizer, while hundreds of  
7:06thousands more opted to move elsewhere. For  many, confidence was lost that the territory  
7:11could ever return to what it was before.  But it is worth noting: Hong Kong has never been a  
7:17true, full democracy with universal suffrage. For  much of the colonial period, like most colonies,  
7:23Hong Kong was essentially ruled outright by the  Governor, who themselves was the representative  
7:27of the British monarchy. But in the 1980s,  the system started to evolve into something  
7:31closer and closer to universal suffrage—where  everyone gets to vote. In the 1990s and 2000s,  
7:37the territory experienced its most representative  form of democracy ever, yet from the 2010s to  
7:43today, that has started to regress as Beijing  institutes a series of so-called, “reforms.” 
7:49Now, Hong Kong’s elections system quite literally  may be one of the most complex in the entire  
7:54world. But much of it stems from what’s called  the Election Committee. This is a 1,500 member  
8:00body who votes for the Chief Executive—the head  of the government. How this body is formed is  
8:05convoluted and has changed with each of the last  three elections. In the 2016 election, though, 106  
8:12of the positions were just directly appointed—the  President of the Hong Kong Polytechnic University,  
8:17Chairperson of the Drinking Water Safety Advisory  Committee, and Chairman of the Antiquities  
8:21Advisory Board, for example, each automatically  gained a seat in the Election Committee. 
8:25But the vast majority of seats were themselves  voted upon by so-called functional constituencies.  
8:31In 2016 there were 38 of these each representing  a variety of interests—there was one for the  
8:36financial sector with 18 seats, another  representing Chinese Medicine with 30,  
8:41even one representing religious interests with  60 seats. Now, each functional constituency  
8:46itself has a different way of determining  who fills its election committee seats. Some,  
8:51like the education constituency, allow for  widespread voting—every registered teacher  
8:56and many higher-level administrative staff  in educational institutions are allowed to  
9:00vote on who they send to the committee, and  therefore have an indirect say in who gets  
9:04appointed as Chief Executive of Hong Kong.  But bizarrely, about 42.5% of total election  
9:10committee seats were voted upon by organizations  and corporations. In the finance constituency,  
9:16any registered bank that has been operating  for at least three years votes—not individuals  
9:20working at the banks, the banks themselves. Yet  for other constituencies, like that of transport,  
9:27the eligibility criteria is simply just a list  of companies. There are 229 that can register to  
9:32vote in this constituency, and that’s how Gate  Gourmet, for example, the Swiss-Owned airline  
9:37catering company, ends up with the right to vote  for the individuals who then go on to vote for  
9:41the most powerful politician in the territory.  Clearly, this system had its critics. The very  
9:48fact that the head of the government was voted on  by 246,440 voters, rather than all seven million  
9:53residents of the territory, would be enough to  elicit controversy, but then there’s the question  
9:58of the composition of this voter-base to begin  with. Politics in Hong Kong typically are split  
10:03into the so-called pro-Beijing and pro-Democracy  camps. There’s the group that supports increased  
10:08control by the central government, then there’s  the group that supports increased autonomy and  
10:12democracy for Hong Kong. These functional  constituencies, and therefore the election  
10:17committee, consistently skew more towards the  pro-Beijing camp than the general public.  
10:22For example, in the 2012 legislative council  elections, some seats were voted upon by the  
10:27general public in geographic constituencies, while  others were voted upon by the same functional  
10:31constituencies. The pro-Democracy camp actually  beat the pro-Beijing camp in the directly elected  
10:37seats—winning 18 to their 17. But considering  pro-Beijing won the vast majority of functional  
10:43constituency seats, 26 to pro-Democracy’s 9, the  pro-Beijing politicians won a strong majority in  
10:50the legislative council—as they have in  every single election in the Chinese era. 
10:55But something changed in late 2019. In the midst  of the wide scale anti-extradition protests,  
11:01the territory held its District Council  elections—essentially, the local elections.  
11:06Unlike the territory-wide legislative council or  Chief Executive elections, the vast majority of  
11:10District Council seats were directly elected  by the general public. And the pro-democracy  
11:15camp showed up in force. For the first time ever,  they won in the popular vote—a full 57%—and won a  
11:24colossal 388 of 452 seats—an absolutely massive  jump from their previous total of 126. With  
11:32legislative council and Chief Executive elections  on the horizon in 2021 and 2022 respectively,  
11:38Beijing decided it needed to make some changes if  it were to ensure its supporters stayed in power.  
11:43China’s National People’s Congress—which itself  is a body whose members are technically elected  
11:47but in a process almost entirely controlled  by the Chinese Communist Party—voted in  
11:512021 to reform the composition of Hong  Kong’s legislative council. Previously,  
11:56half of the seventy seats were directly elected  by the general public, while the other half were  
12:00elected by the functional constituencies. But  now, there’d be ninety total seats with just  
12:05twenty directly elected by the public, thirty  elected by the functional constituencies,  
12:10then another forty elected by the election  committee—which itself, of course, was made up of  
12:15members voted in by the functional constituencies.  Overall, this massively tilted power away from  
12:21the people and towards the historically  pro-Beijing functional constituencies.  
12:25But that was far from the full extent of the  reforms. The election committee, despite its  
12:30perfect history in voting in a pro-Beijing chief  executive, was itself reformed too. Typically,  
12:36the strongest block of support for pro-democracy  politicians comes from the functional  
12:40constituencies made up of people, rather  than institutions. For example, the education  
12:45constituency, made up of 85,000 teachers,  academics, and administrative staff, was always  
12:50one of the few pro-democracy constituencies.  But with the 2021 reforms, the number of seats  
12:55filled by these functional constituencies made  up of real people was slashed—many by half,  
13:00some by four times. Meanwhile, the number of seats  voted in by companies and organizations stayed  
13:06about the same, while they also added more than  three hundred new ex-officio seats—those filled  
13:11by someone already in another position, in this  case almost all inherently pro-Beijing positions.  
13:16If that wasn’t enough, all candidates for  essentially any political position in Hong  
13:20Kong now had to be approved by a candidate  review committee—one that follows ambiguous  
13:25criteria and has absolutely no mechanism  for appeal. The members of this committee,  
13:30that decides among other things who can run for  the seats that vote for the Chief Executive,  
13:34are directly appointed by the Chief Executive.  Democracy is dead in Hong Kong. The pro-Democracy  
13:41camp, which just years ago was able to win  the popular vote, now has absolutely no viable  
13:48path towards any position of power. China has  remade the city in its own image—a political  
13:54system that claims to represent the will of the  people, but in actuality hands near-complete  
13:59control over to the central government.  Beyond and because of the changing political  
14:04system, there is now also a widespread trend of  Hong Kong becoming more integrated—literally,  
14:08functionally, and culturally—with the mainland.  In 2018, a $20 billion bridge opened connecting  
14:14the peninsula to both Macau, another autonomous  territory, and the mainland on the other side  
14:18of the Estuary. This was considered by many a  symbolic project more than anything. After all,  
14:23there was already a reliable and popular network  of fast ferries connecting Hong Kong to Macau,  
14:28and road traffic between both territories and  the mainland is quite limited—the territories  
14:32drive on the opposite side of the road  as the mainland, and even then, driving  
14:36a vehicle across the border requires a separate  driving license, a permit, separate insurance,  
14:41and approval by the neighboring Chinese  region, so very few even attempt it.  
14:45But a far more practical connection  opened with the West Kowloon railway  
14:48station in 2018. This connected Hong Kong  to the Chinese high speed rail network,  
14:53meaning one can now travel non-stop well over a  thousand miles across the country to Beijing or  
14:59Shanghai in about eight hours. This was also  controversial. After all, to make it nonstop,  
15:05without a long wait at the border, mainland  Chinese immigration would have to happen at  
15:09the station itself. This meant that mainland  officials would operate within Hong Kong and,  
15:15most problematically to supporters of Hong  Kong’s autonomy, mainland law would be in  
15:20force after the immigration checkpoint,  meaning there is now this small area in  
15:24Hong Kong within West Kowloon Station and on the  tracks out from it where many believe Basic Law,  
15:29stipulating the autonomy of Hong Kong’s legal  system, has been violated. After all, there  
15:34have now been instances where individuals have  been arrested and prosecuted under mainland law  
15:39while physically in Hong Kong, but after clearing  mainland immigration in West Kowloon station.  
15:44Beyond the increasing physical connection with  the mainland, there’s simultaneously a mounting  
15:48intangible alignment with China. This is not  necessarily wrong—after all the vast majority  
15:53of Hong Kongers are ethnically Chinese—but  it is often controversial and many see it  
15:58as coming at the expense of maintaining Hong  Kong’s unique, singular identity. For example,  
16:03the newly opened half billion dollar Hong Kong  Palace Museum displays artifacts from the Beijing  
16:07Palace Museum, and focuses on educating the  public about the history of imperial China.  
16:12But they’ve been very careful to phrase it as  a partner, not a branch, of the Beijing museum,  
16:17even if in function it could be either. Critics  suggest that its development could have been  
16:21forced through by Beijing as a form of cultural  propaganda as Chief Executive Carrie Lam approved  
16:26its construction without any consultation  from the legislative council or public—and  
16:30critics say this is a violation of the rules  of the cultural district in which it’s built.  
16:35COVID was another example of alignment with  China. Pragmatically, Hong Kong had no choice but  
16:40to align its prevention measures with Beijing’s  severe and scientifically controversial zero-COVID  
16:45policies. After all, not doing so would act as  public doubt in Xi Jinping’s decision-making,  
16:50which is not a realistic option for Hong Kong’s  ruling pro-Beijing leadership. But especially in  
16:55the later years of the pandemic, this served as a  stark display of just how Chinese this supposedly  
17:00Westernized city had become. Throughout 2022,  the territory maintained strict policies like  
17:0621-day quarantines for arriving passengers,  legally-enforced isolation for the sick,  
17:10vaccine passports for access to  public places, and more. Meanwhile,  
17:14most of the western world got back to normal in  early 2022 as the Omicron-fueled surge subsided. 
17:20Ultimately, Hong Kong’s strictness, borne out of  Beijing’s influence, seemed to get it the worst of  
17:26both worlds. The city had an extremely high COVID  death rate—higher than most Western countries,  
17:32and far higher that most of the Asian continent.  And perhaps most notably, Singapore, perhaps Hong  
17:37Kong’s closest equivalent, did not see the same.  2,024 people died of COVID in Singapore, or about  
17:44one in 2,800 people. In Hong Kong, though, 13,516  died—that’s one in 550. But Singapore’s COVID  
17:55policy was far less strict. It opened its borders  to the world about a year before Hong Kong,  
18:00and was devoid of almost all visible restrictions  by late 2022 while Hong Kong was still in the  
18:05midst of its strict zero-COVID policies.  This had an impact because the cities are  
18:10direct competitors. They both portray themselves  as global business capitals—the perfect hub of  
18:16east and west, with high English proficiency,  strong local talent, and easy access to financial  
18:21services and other important institutions. And  they are each successful at this. Singapore  
18:26is home to the Asian headquarters of Apple,  Google, Johnson & Johnson, Chevron, Barclays,  
18:31Microsoft, Boeing, and plenty more while Hong  Kong acts as the headquarters of J.P. Morgan,  
18:35Prudential, Estée Lauder, and more, but the  composition of these lists reflects the changing  
18:40nature of multinational enterprise in Asia. Singapore is winning. It is consistently being  
18:47chosen as the best city for western companies  to base their Asia operations out of. This is  
18:52reflected by the fact that Hong Kong barely has  any tech presence, as the new wave of businesses  
18:57has consistently chosen the city-state to the  south. And they’re not losing out on new business,  
19:02they’re also just simply losing business.  FedEx and the Wall Street Journal were two of  
19:07the highest profile headquarters moves from Hong  Kong to Singapore in recent years, while others  
19:10have selected elsewhere. The New York Times, for  example, moved its Asia headquarters to Seoul,  
19:15while LVMH—the luxury goods conglomerate  including Louis Vuitton, Sephora, Tiffany,  
19:20and dozens more brands—opted to move up to  Shanghai. In fact, the number of American  
19:25businesses with regional headquarters in Hong Kong  is now declining, and at 214, it’s at its lowest  
19:31count since the year 2000, and a similar trend  is seen for British and Australian firms as well. 
19:37Since 2018, Hong Kong’s economy has been  effectively flat—it’s only grown a marginal  
19:435.8% in five whole years. Over the same span,  Singapore’s has exploded a full 33.2%. Since 2021,  
19:52Hong Kong’s historically red-hot property  market has been on a steady decline. And  
19:57tourism figures have been terrible,  at numbers not seen since the early  
20:012010s. Hong Kong is just not what it once was.  Its quagmire seems centered around the fact that  
20:09it’s losing what made it unique. The destinations  of the businesses leaving the city reflect this.  
20:14Shanghai is certainly the city best-suited to  international companies in mainland China, so  
20:19it makes sense the companies that want to further  focus on the Chinese market, like LVMH, would move  
20:23there. Singapore, meanwhile, has effectively  stepped in to be what Hong Kong once was.  
20:29It is tremendously cosmopolitan—at times  it’s hard to categorize it into any one  
20:33continent—and yet it still has high exposure and  proximity to China. Also a former British colony,  
20:39Singapore also runs on a western legal system,  also has high English language proficiency,  
20:44and also runs as a democracy—although also an  imperfect one. But perhaps most importantly,  
20:50Singapore is, of course, its own country. It is  not subject to the same game of tug of war between  
20:55the world and China as Hong Kong. It is therefore  perceived by many as a more stable environment.  
21:02Hong Kong is changing fast, and when a company is  deciding where to invest hundreds of millions of  
21:06dollars to build a headquarters, fast change is  not attractive. In 2021, the US Departments of  
21:12State, Treasury, Commerce, and Homeland Security  jointly issued an advisory warning US companies  
21:17about the growing risks in operating in Hong Kong.  The document notes the risks to foreign nationals  
21:22and businesses placed by the new National Security  Law, that data security is no longer a guarantee,  
21:27and that there could be challenges with access  to information given growing constraints on  
21:30the freedom of the press in the territory. And  beyond the direct implications of these threats,  
21:35multinational companies rely on the ability to  convince key talent to move to their offices  
21:40in Asia, and there’s a significant number of  westerners who are wary of moving to a place  
21:44that is increasingly influenced by Beijing.  So to the decision-makers, it’s now hard to see  
21:50what Hong Kong uniquely offers. There’s the option  of Shanghai if a business wants a cosmopolitan  
21:56city with direct access to mainland China, and  then there’s Singapore if they just need proximity  
22:00and familiarity. The city is just consistently  losing, and the trend-line is the scariest bit.  
22:07It’s tough to know what Beijing’s end-game  is. Hong Kong is a useful tool for the  
22:12central government as it’s difficult for western  companies to operate in China’s unique economic  
22:16and legal system, so the city almost acts as  a connecting node between China’s socialist  
22:21economy and the western capitalist one. This  almost certainly increases the flow of capital  
22:26into the country while simultaneously  allowing the Chinese Communist Party  
22:29to maintain their brand of socialism.  Perhaps it’s just instinct. Xi Jinping  
22:36and the other autocratic leaders in China  just don’t know how to deal with dissent.  
22:40This has been demonstrated by the Tiananmen  Square Massacre, by the lack of free press,  
22:44by the censorship of media—the instinct is to  just prevent dissent from happening in public,  
22:49rather than confronting its cause. But in  a democratic system, dissent is inherent.  
22:55In a democratic Hong Kong, therefore, there will  always be an anti-China camp. So perhaps, in the  
23:01long term, one country, two systems was never  going to work, but it’s also possible that in  
23:06the future the world will look back on Hong Kong  as an example of Chinese short-sightedness—the  
23:12destruction of a once-great city out of  fear of what democracy could do to Beijing.  
23:20Rather than do a traditional ad-read here at  the end, I’m just going to play the trailer  
23:23for the new show me and my team made called  the Getaway. Although I’ll say now: there is  
23:29a bit of a twist in this trailer, so it’s worth  watching at least halfway through…
 “Welcome to  
23:34The Getaway where these six creators are taking a  road trip to transport a $10,000 prize across the  
23:40great American West. The problem… there's a Snitch  among them! Sabotaging the group at every turn.  
23:49The Gamer? Am I 1,000% sure I am not the Snitch?  Absolutely. The Zoologist? Is there nothing I can  
23:56say to change your mind? The Therapist? You guys  trust-trust each other? Actually trust each other?  
24:02The Card Counter? I'm not— I'm not throwing shade  at you. But the way that I think it would be smart  
24:07to do it— Steven! The Finance Guy? This Snitch  thing is very stressful. I go to bed at night,  
24:13and I worry. The Political Scientist? I  have this suspicion that... we did get the  
24:18Snitch. You really never know. Sure. Okay.  This is a tense moment. Okay, here we go.  
24:29What am I? Alright, nice. Ohh yeah. Snitch.  So here's what's actually going on. We really  
24:35like shows that have, you know, a sabotage  element. But there's already so many that  
24:40have a saboteur. Okay. Alright. I have this  special role. I'm really carrying this entire  
24:48series. There's even the ones that have a couple  of saboteurs. Boston I don't believe in. Jersey  
24:53I don't bel… It's Boston. Boston was never the  city. But as far as we know, there's none that  
25:00have everyone as the saboteur. And we thought  that would be funny. In some way, I'm like,  
25:11are there two Snitches here? We got— We gotta run!  Oh my (bleep) god! There's no script for this. So,  
25:31you know… That's a great—Oh, that's gonna make  the trailer, dude. Yeah. Yeah. You mother—” 
25:54You can watch the Getaway  exclusively on Nebula, so head over  
25:58to Nebula.tv/Wendover to sign up and you’ll even  get 40% off an annual subscription, bringing the  
26:00cost down to just $2.50 a month. With that you’ll  get access to the full catalog of top-notch Nebula  
26:03Originals made by creators you probably already  watch and love, plus access to all of our normal  
26:05videos early and ad-free, and you’ll be helping  support our work, so thank you in advance.